Curse

Martin Firestorm · Aug 10, 2009, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Swapping out another skill could be a problem I guess, but I meant using ele lord and AoR together.

reaper with no name · Sep 02, 2009, 07:54 PM // 19:54

So, it's been a while since anyone has posted in this thread, and a new variable has been introduced: the new selfless spirit. Obviously, it's of no use to ER eles, and it certainly won't help monks outheal ER eles, but my question is, has this changed the game with regards to prot? Can monks with selfless spirit keep up with (or even beat) ER eles in prot now?

I have no idea; that's why I'm asking. I'm curious, though.

madriel222 · Sep 02, 2009, 11:07 PM // 23:07

The potential ridiculous spamming of Shield Guardian is still doable only by the ER, but the new Selfless Spirit puts a brand new tool in the prot monk's arsenal for sure. Combined with the new Divine Boon, those little RoF's and SoA's don't look so little anymore, and are virtually free to cast.

maxxfury · Sep 03, 2009, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by madriel222

The potential ridiculous spamming of Shield Guardian is still doable only by the ER, but the new Selfless Spirit puts a brand new tool in the prot monk's arsenal for sure. Combined with the new Divine Boon, those little RoF's and SoA's don't look so little anymore, and are virtually free to cast.

Songkai rit +selfless spirit spams ps+sb+shield guardian excessivly with practically no cost. And you get the resto line for redbar if you need it.

Run ap+divine spirit & selfless spirit on a boon prot monk. The upkeep is a little more micro intense but you can spam ps+sb+sheild guardian to excess quite happily as well as keeping up an aegis chain and lots of seeds of life rolling...Even with just divine spirit+ap you can happily spam ps+sb all over so long as you can proc AP reliablily.

the only things you miss from them over the ER infoozer is the mental infuse health abuse and self heal back up from Er.

reaper with no name · Sep 03, 2009, 05:08 PM // 17:08

...I wish I knew more about monking. I had to take a minute to figure out what half those skills were.

So...Is that a "yes, ER eles still win at prot", or "No, monks can now keep up in prot and win at it thanks to runes"?

Snow Bunny · Sep 03, 2009, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Eles are stronger, still.

They have infinite energy.

Xenomortis · Sep 03, 2009, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

"No, monks can now keep up in prot and win at it thanks to runes"?

Whilst I haven't tried the new prot builds for monks, I sincerely doubt that will ever be the case. The two most powerful prots (Prot Spirit and Aegis*) do not require a high prot spec and extra points for Spirit Bond are unnecessary. But Ether Renewal still beats any other form of energy management for this purpose and that is all that's really important.

*Although humans running ER tend not to bring Aegis

maxxfury · Sep 03, 2009, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Eles are stronger, still.

They have infinite energy.

What he said! <---

But monks took a big step up towards them, with ap boon prot.

Arrogant Bastard · Sep 04, 2009, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Still annoying trying to find a PUG using an ER infuser.

"LOL ele trying to be monk???"

**Marty Silverblade** · Sep 04, 2009, 11:02 PM // 23:02

People are stupid. Not much else to say. However, look at the upside: If only a few (compared to the entire player base) players are using it, it's much less likely to be nerfed.

Jeydra · Sep 05, 2009, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

the only things you miss from them over the ER infoozer is the mental infuse health abuse and self heal back up from Er.

Which are a lot, and not to mention the 8 Life Attunements ...

I don't know how effective Monks are since the update, haven't played with one yet. On paper, they sure have gotten a lot stronger; they can use small prots more as well as heal more. ER Infuse retains its strengths though, and a real Monk cannot pump out the Spirit Bonds and Prot Spirits an Elementalist can.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

Still annoying trying to find a PUG using an ER infuser.

"LOL ele trying to be monk???"

You don't say. This other day I got into an argument with my alliance over how much DPS Echo'ed RoJ actually does. I told them it is way inferior to Warriors hitting for 200 damage a hit. They responded with "lol where are you playing your PvE, noob island?", and then tried intimidating me with their superior knowledge of PvE: "did you know Eles can spam prots and heal for 300++ health?". Duh! I'm on of the pioneers of the build how can I not know it!?

Ten guesses for why I left the alliance ...

maxxfury · Sep 05, 2009, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Which are a lot, and not to mention the 8 Life Attunements ...

I don't know how effective Monks are since the update, haven't played with one yet. On paper, they sure have gotten a lot stronger; they can use small prots more as well as heal more. ER Infuse retains its strengths though, and a real Monk cannot pump out the Spirit Bonds and Prot Spirits an Elementalist can.

yeah and the upto 8 life attunes!..my bad, neglected that part

The general/average monk bar got a pretty good buff with selfless with regards staying power in longer fights. and the 'new' boon prot with a free elite slot is pretty damn powerfull too now!

but i still say the ApBoonProt is still the best bar a monk can roll (for general play) which didnt really change at all...other than boon been cheaper per cast. The perma seeds & aegis chain along with the 100~heal per cast makes it imo..the perfect partner for an ErInfoozer.
they gel together well.

The ER covers the heavy prots and the WTF spike heals and the Ap covers the small prots, party pressure and block % and cleanup. Fits nice! (yeah i know both bars can very effectivly solo 'monk' many 8person areas, but often its too much effort for lazy ppl, erm..me :P)

Well or an Er and smiter i guess too

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Ten guesses for why I left the alliance ...

erm? not enough free cookies?

Red Apple · Sep 05, 2009, 03:30 AM // 03:30

We... better... start praying to Balthazar?

hahahahaha

Superior indeed, truly a shame on ANET :S, now we can play URSANWAY in a more epic way hahahahhaahha xDDDD

reaper with no name · Sep 08, 2009, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

People are stupid. Not much else to say. However, look at the upside: If only a few (compared to the entire player base) players are using it, it's much less likely to be nerfed.

Eh, I think it needs to be nerfed and nerfed fast. No profession should be able to step on another profession's toes like that.

kanuks · Sep 08, 2009, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Eh, I think it needs to be nerfed and nerfed fast. No profession should be able to step on another profession's toes like that.

Well what about PermaSin who are the mother of all tanks? They weren't meant to be the most survivable class. Actually they were meant to be the least survivable melee class, using hit and run strategy with damage spikes and shadow steps.

reaper with no name · Sep 09, 2009, 06:15 AM // 06:15

They need to be nerfed even more.

I've got it all planned out, see?

1) Nerf SF
2) Nerf ER
3) Fix Dervishes
4) Fix Ritualists - DONE
5) Fix pets - DONE

Dazzen · Sep 09, 2009, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Eh, I think it needs to be nerfed and nerfed fast. No profession should be able to step on another profession's toes like that.

I'm not sure you remember it, but ER already had its share of nerfing... Then people stopped using it. That left eles with another underpowered elite and thinned out the build possibilities for eles...

If you don't want professions to step on another toe it's simple : remove dual classes => After all they were meant just for that : An ele that can powerheal or run a tank build or etc, etc, etc...

Jeydra · Sep 09, 2009, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Eh, I think it needs to be nerfed and nerfed fast. No profession should be able to step on another profession's toes like that.

I used to think so too but now I'm not so sure. The obvious example is this: is there a real advantage to using two ER Elementalists in a team? You will overlap each other until you wind up Infusing each other after the other guy Infuses, which is just wastage.

What else is there? Last time I played with Varda we ran double Protective Bonds + Life Attunement / Vital Blessing for each Elementalist, which is great and all but still lacks removal, and since only Varda carried Infuse we're lucky he never lost ER.

Monks have their strengths. ER Elementalists have their strengths as well and can match or even exceed real Monks sometimes, but not to the extent where nerfs are so necessary (Shadow Form requires it much more in my opinion).

PS: If it's because ER Elementalists matching Monks at healing / protting is something to be avoided, then Monks need some major nerfing too since they're treading on Restoration Rits' toes too (not to mention healing Dervs).

Xenomortis · Sep 09, 2009, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

I used to think so too but now I'm not so sure. The obvious example is this: is there a real advantage to using two ER Elementalists in a team? You will overlap each other until you wind up Infusing each other after the other guy Infuses, which is just wastage.

What else is there? Last time I played with Varda we ran double Protective Bonds + Life Attunement / Vital Blessing for each Elementalist, which is great and all but still lacks removal, and since only Varda carried Infuse we're lucky he never lost ER.

Running two ER Eles basically means you can easily and relatively safely keep up 8 copies of Prot Bond, mabye with some Heal Party spam.

But I think if you have 1 ER Eles and 1 Monk; then (depending on the area) the monk should focus a little more in clean up - something the ele cannot do. Two obvious elite choices are Restore Condition and Peace and Harmony. Unfortunatly, RC is conditions only and cannot self-target and PnH is on too long a recharge to keep everybody clean in areas when you need it.
That monk should also bring some stuff ER Eles don't - Aegis, perhaps Extinguish, etc.

Windf0rce · Sep 09, 2009, 11:41 AM // 11:41

I also believe the build is broken, nothing should reward spam like that, but in the end it's not affecting the game in any major way I would bother asking for a nerf (like Shadow Form does), and it doesn't affect PvP either.

I still believe a standard Monk build is less situational and simply more fun to play. The Ele spam gimmick annoyed me to no end the times I played it, and the constant spam of prots and heals is hardly needed. A few well placed spells are all that's needed to keep the team up and a Monk can do that without problems. If your team is taking SO MUCH damage that everyone needs PS+SB on them, something is really wrong.

I'm a Monk and I never had issues finding a team because Ele healers were all over the place - to the contrary, healer Eles are pretty rare. I once led a team for a Zaishen Mission and took one in my team, but most pugs will just refuse Ele healer out of ignorance of their power, only really accepting Monks and Ritualists as party healers.

Edit: with the new Selfless Spirit, Monks step up in the race against ER eles. We have a 60% discount on 5E Spells and 30% discount on 10E Spells, which makes a significant difference and allowing Monks some extra spammability/room for mistakes.